#Community Discourse

[hyakinthou-naos]

HelPol Discourse & Ableism

A more nuanced addition to this post - which I made on a low spoons day (if you're just interested in the ableism part then scroll to the bottom).

The Dunning-Kruger Effect

“The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people with limited competence in a particular domain overestimate their abilities”

- Wikipedia

The Duning-Kruger Effect was first pointed out to me by another pagan practitioner - and in that context it was used to describe those who claim to know what is “right” or “wrong” for all practitioners within a given tradition.

This fellow practitioner (I can’t remember their name - this was at least 2 years ago) pointed out that those who are incredibly knowledgeable about a given tradition don’t tend to go around policing others practices.

Why?

Because being knowledgeable about any religious or spiritual tradition means recognizing how incredibly human made traditions are. They are loose - flexible - ever changing and ever evolving within both individual and community practice.

Now - that doesn’t mean “anything goes” within a tradition or religion, quite the opposite.

It instead means that the best way to create a cohesive tradition (or revive a cohesive tradition) is through working together as a community to discuss what is and isn’t valid praxis.

One individual (or a small group of individuals) speaking on behalf of an entire community is very rarely a good idea.

Bold “unpopular opinion” posts - telling others what is and isn’t valid praxis - is not only incredibly hubristic, but is also only going to lead to anger and infighting.

It is through conversation that we can get to the root of an issue and try to find consensus as a community.

As an example: I could make a post explaining my interpretation of, and feelings around, people worshipping Medusa. I could explain that I have negative feelings because this type of worship was not seen in antiquity. But then I could also make it clear that this is just my opinion - and that I’d be interested in hearing others points of view*

*some of those caught up in this controversy have done this, and have wrongly been demonized for it - while others have done the exact opposite, stating their opinion as law.

If someone makes a post similar to the example and you’re still going to be antagonistic or cruel - then just block that person. You’re going to save both them and yourself a lot of needless stress.

If someone makes a post that is actively inflammatory - you can do one of two things:

1. If you have the energy and bandwidth, you can engage with them in a discussion or civil debate.

2. If you don’t have the energy or bandwidth, or if OP is unwillingly to engage you in such talks, then just block them. Again - it will save you a lot of needless stress.

Lastly - we as Hellenic Polytheists need to be better about our ableism.

If there is something in our faith that is ableist (example: you must always stand with arms outstretched during ritual) then it shouldn’t be part of our faith.

Just because some people do not have any limitations on their physical mobility or mental energy - does not mean that the able-bodied way of doing things gets to be the default or “correct” way of practicing our faith.

I want to make a longer post on the ableism that is rampant in both the HelPol and wider Pagan communities - but for now I think that will suffice.

Askbox is open, as are DMs - The Temple is always open to community building, community discussion, and (civil) community debate.

Eirene - peace and farewell,

- Temple Hyacinthus

[transgwender616]

Me seeing discourse for a community/ fandom i'm not apart of

[nonbinarymlm]

The queer community, first and foremost, is a bunch of messy, traumatized people struggling in a society that devalues them.

Let’s be kind to each other, and also aware that any specific queer group is very capable of forming social cliques and bullying others. This happens on many different axis of oppression and is sometimes not directly related to opposition. Take each situation as you come up it, with its own context, and try to be kind and willing to hear feedback. Especially if you are in a position of leadership.

[that-dreaming-dragon]

Knowledge and Information

I'd always witness confusion amongst newbie or old members rejoining community alike, or folks that don't interact with the larger, or just different community having these sort of confusion. Whether it's about the availability of a concept, the legitimacy of one's aspect of identity, the misunderstanding with terms due to lack of introduction towards the community or general misinformation floating around, or even sillier stuff about demographic of the alterhuman community.

I always encourage people to interact with the larger community, and if having the capacity, to attempt to interact with the community of different platforms and spaces. Because I understand that it's not always possible. Hell, you couldn't make me go on tiktok even if you threaten my draconity (I knew that thing was bad before it got popular in the west, now it's a literal wild west of alterhuman community).

That's why central hub communities are important. At least in my opinion.

(CW: Below cut will be mention of discourse topics, and the writings get a bit more on the negativity side of things)

I will always recommend folks to try out Othercon, and subsequently try to join Otherconnect just so they have a place where they can find more people and places. But more importantly, so that they can be closer to knowledge and information that are shared to and with a larger community.

Keeping communication is important. I try to bring whatever information I can into the smaller servers I'm in, to be a bridge between places in a way, fulfilling my archetrope being the Bond Thread Weaver. It does get hard and overwhelming at times. In fact, I'm constantly at a level of slightly overwhelmed and distracted, it sort of amplify my chaotic tendencies. I wish I can keep up my own activity, wishing I have my hearttype's Multiple Shadow Clone technique, drinking in as much knowledge as I can, or know the best and fastest way to acquire the answer any inquiry that I can help answer.

It is not a one person job. It isn't a job. But we are a community so I and many others do what we can, directing people to more people whom they can talk to or exchange experience with. Sharing what knowledge we have gathered, helping preserve these knowledge.

Sometimes I do wish they can do it themselves. But the next moment, I realize that a lot of problem stem from outside misinformation. Our stuff, the alterhuman knowledge, is truly all over the place sometimes. We are still fighting the folks who treat kin as not a identity but silly roleplay aesthetic. We are still arguing against those that think therian is only the existing animal currently on earth (also, human are animals too, did these people know that?). We are still dealing with so much, ah, what's the word, "missing stair" cases. There is also stuff like the confined idea of what dragons are. The constant idea that everything is nonhuman or otherkin only. We even still deal with those that disagree with plural folks who don't "abide" by some guideline made by folks that observe it from outside perspective. I could go on and on and on.

Do people remember that spiritual, singular kintype/theriotype, everything has to be involuntary, used to be a thing? A default setting? Do people know? I like the Chinese version better of this idiom, but the sentiment is better translate this way, how the tables had turned.

It's hard to get everyone in the same place and talk. Even if we band together, we are still just a pocket of community. There will be those that refuse to, or simply couldn't interact with elsewhere than their one space. I had at times think of those that are less than nice while holing up in their own little club, with ideology that screams invalidating and hurtful towards others (like for example, treating fictionfolk as KFF) as "frogs at the bottom of the well", a Chinese idiom that refers to people who has narrow perspective and unaware of the limitation of their own experience.

I don't know how we can overcome this. Sometimes people need to sit back, and just check back, read around, do some research. There are others like us, there are more folks other than us. We are all unique, but it doesn't mean we live in isolation, certainly not amongst our fellow alterhuman community members.

[lgbtransgirl]

Ice cold takes from a Transgender Woman:

Men are not inherently Evil

Everyone has the capacity for evil

Transgender Men are men

Transgender Women are women

Excluding Cisgender Men from your spaces requires Transgender Men to out themselves if they want to engage (Same for Women)

Anyone can be Non-Binary, there is no "look" or requirement

Non-binary masculine presenting people should be welcome in queer spaces, many are just treated as men and predators

Non-binary feminine presenting people should be welcome in queer spaces without being seen as "Woman-Lite"

Edited the wording on the first point because too many terfs keep thinking I'm their friend.

[allthingswhumpyandangsty]

fanfic writing culture isn’t “oh dang! I wanted to write about this prompt with this character but someone else already wrote it, so now I can’t”.

fanfic writing culture is always “two cakes is better than one. the more the merrier. there can ever be enough fics of this character with this prompt!”

[001x456]

“ships should at least make sense.” no. ships can make sense, sure. but they’re just fictional characters we play with for fun. they’re fantasies, not a fucking thesis paper. so no, they don’t always have to make sense. they just have to make you happy (or horny).

let people enjoy (fictional) things however they want to enjoy.

[respectissexy]

There are two basic arguments for shutting the fuck up about cishets at Pride.

First: What if a trans kid asks their parents to show their support by attending Pride with them? What if a lesbian can only attend pride if she gets a ride from someone and the only person willing and able to drive her is her straight brother? What if a bi disabled person can't attend a large outdoor event without hands-on assistance from their straight partner? What if someone just wants to bring their fucking friends? What if, contrary to popular tumblr discourse, most queers don't inhabit perfectly pure social bubbles populated only by other queers? What if it's none of your business?

Second and perhaps more important: If you think you can tell that someone is CIS, let alone HET, by LOOKING at them, you are a cop and an idiot.

[florbo-0]

First we’re all calling 3 the magic number and giving 5 all kinds of shit because it’s not as “round” of a number as 3 whatever that means and now we’re bullying 5 for losing a little weight?? Jesus, people. Either butt out of other people’s lives or at least have the decorum to give them the respect they deserve. You’re all a bunch of children.

hey has anyone noticed the number 5 got a little smaller

[xiranjayzhao]

Some truths about the publishing industry because I certainly got blindsided when going in. Now I'm so broken by this industry I struggle to encourage aspiring writers lmao

[clover-wasnt-here]

“Autism doesn’t cause low empathy! In fact we’re all just hyperempathetic we’re not bad peo-“

SHUT UP. SHUT UP. SHUT UP.

There’s a few things going on with this statement.

1. Assuming that low empathy makes someone a bad person. It does not. Actions are what matter, not empathy levels.

2. Demonizing autistic people whose low/no empathy they attribute to their autism. Autism fundamentally impacts the way you interact with the world, others, and yourself. That includes empathy.

Anyway I love you people with low/no empathy this is a safe space for you <3

Signed,

A very pissed off autistic person with fluctuating empathy levels

[bebx]

[linktothecats]

Hey perisex people, who the fuck cares what intersex people identify with. It's not your fucking business. In general, stop fucking asking people about their agab and body parts. People will identify with whatever feels comfortable and if you don't like it, it's no one's problem but yours. Stop trying to be the HOA of identity.

Also while I'm here please stop using slurs.

[johnny-depp-is-loved]

Reblog if you are employed / have a full time job and are a fanfic writer who still actively writes and posts new chapters / new works.

My friend says you can’t be an adult, have a full time job and be a fanfic writer at the same time, because you’ll have to sacrifice your writing, fandom activities, for your career. And I just… don’t think that’s the case? At all? Unless I’m missing something? Unless I’m doing it wrong by being employed and still writing fanfics?

[th3-c0ll3ct3r]

I love the HermitCraft community